Richard L. Stiles

CM: Let's go back just a little bit to changes that have taken place, because you just alluded to developing a cadre of workers to help implement things. I think that through CASAS and through this network that you're talking about that the status of women in adult ed has changed dramatically.

RS: Right. And actually recognized leaders rather than real leaders. I mean, both recognized and real. They had a lot of coaches, but I'm talking about — that's a negative statement. [Adult ed] was a dumping ground for the right to retire while employed. He had a heart attack so put him in adult ed. I'm overstating it.

CM: But if you look at the people who attended the CASAS consortium meeting, most of them were women, not all of them, but most of them were. And you look around now, so many of them have their own schools. Or at least they're an administrator in a school.

RS: And they know their stuff.

CM: When they came it was as a classroom teacher or a department head.

RS: Obviously, they didn't know their place. (both laugh)

CM: So you taught them what their place was, up there.

RS: Yeah, and it was, and it is, and they are. And Joan is a good example, Kathy and Pat. They're not followers. They're able to step forward and — I'm not being critical, but we have good, strong women, and there's nothing wrong with that. We need stronger males too, but the women have stepped forward.

CM: I know that, but there were always males in leadership positions.

RS: In administrative positions.

CM: In administrative positions, okay.